As our Expert Connexions series continues, we present a slight twist. This next expert is a Business Development Coach at the 7th largest law firm in the Pacific Northwest. She is also the co-host of a podcast geared for women, called Think Tank of Three, with our own Principal Strategist, Julie Holton.
We launched this series to help as our community deals with the impact of COVID-19. In this virtual coffee break, Audrea Fink shares her thoughts on how this has impacted her job, and how quickly privilege has been redefined.
We are so glad you’re joining us… we’ve had thousands of people connecting with us since our series started. We see you, we hear you, and we are in this together!
Julie: Good morning and welcome to our special Facebook live series called expert connexions. I’m Julie Holton. I am the founder and principal strategist of mConnexions marketing agency. We work with a variety of businesses and individuals, all of whom right now just like you are feeling the changes and challenges of the impact of COVID-19. So we’ve launched this special series of live interviews here on Facebook to really work through this and navigate through this together. I’m so glad you’re joining us this morning. We’ve had thousands of people reaching out and connecting with us through this video series so I’m so glad to see that it’s helping those of you at home as again as we all adjust we hear you we see you and we are in this together. So I want to quickly tell you about who we’ve had on our series so far so that you can check out these interviews that might be helpful to you in the video section on our Facebook page. Just click on that video tab. Shari Pash of strategic solutions for growth yesterday talked about how to sustain our business relationships while working from home and navigating in this new hopefully temporary norm. Ashlee Willis of Michigan premier events shared some great insight about postponing events and conferences. Jerry Norris of The Fledge talked about what he’s doing safely now that his event center is closed to team up with other restaurants that are also closed to help provide food to those who need it. PuroClean of mid-Michigan talked about professional biohazard services specifically pertaining to coronavirus cleanup and then we had Kathryn Trestain of Kathryn Trestain wellness who talked to us about our own personal health and wellness. So all of those videos are in our video section of our page. This morning a little switch up and I’m so excited for this normally you only hear her voice, but this morning my co-host of Think-Tank of Three podcasts is joining me live. Audrea Fink welcome thanks for joining me. Hi Julie. Hello, it’s bright and early there in Seattle so.
Audrea: I don’t know that it’s bright yet.
Julie: Well you know it’s pretty gray here in Michigan too so you know it’s pretty gray and early. How about that?
Audrea: Yeah perfect.
Julie: Those of you at home it is time to grab your cup of coffee or whatever you might be drinking, we are not judging. Audrea it’s coffee because she’s working, I know we chatted about that.
Audrea: It’s actually not coffee. It’s not coffee because of this whole quarantine have decided that since I’m home I’m gonna try new things so I’m trying to give up coffee and I am drinking –
Julie: Oh that’s grave.
Audrea: I know but I’ve got this thing called mud water which doesn’t sound very good, but it’s actually pretty tasty it’s like a golden latte.
Julie: Oh that does sound interesting. Well I know Kathryn Trestain was telling us she’s also cut out coffee because coffee can be a stimulant right so it can induce anxiety. So if you’re already a little anxious at home cut out the coffee. I have not braved that just yet. I’m still drinking coffee but –
Audrea: There’s nothing wrong with drinking coffee. Right? I am just trying.
Julie: Well and let’s say it, I mean it’s 11 o’clock here in Michigan 8 am in Seattle, but it’s 5 o’clock somewhere. So if you’re home with the kids or you’re not working and you want to put something else in your cup, who are we to judge?
Audrea: I mean perfect time for mimosas right?
Julie: Absolutely. yeah I need to rethink what I’m drinking. Anyway, those of you at home give us a thumbs up let us know you can hear us. I can see Stephanie’s there already. Allison has joined us. Thanks guys. Thanks for joining us. So Audrea oh we joke about what’s in our cups of coffee or what’s in our cups, but the reality is that right now this is all really surreal and um and people need to feel connected, so this virtual hangout is a great way to connect. We talk a lot on think tank of three about connecting with your tribe. We might be quarantined to our homes right now, but it’s still important to stay connected. We don’t need to be alone.
Audrea: Right well and I think especially for the think tank of three tribe, we’re all online anyway so this is almost like an elevation of it right now like we’re doing video instead of just audio look. It’s nice to see the faces. It is and you know what I’m gonna tell them a secret. Audrea does not like videos like we’ve talked about. We should live stream while we’re doing our podcast recordings and she won’t have it. So I mean here you go you guys. I guess it took something pretty drastic to happen to get Audrea on video but you look great. I’m gonna see your shiny smiling face every day.
Audrea: I mean that’s fine just don’t record it.
Julie: True okay I can get behind that. Okay so let’s kind of switch to some seriousness a little bit here. How do we stay sane during all of this Audrea? I mean we’re you know you’re working from home. I mean you’re used to working from home once in a while. I run virtual agencies, so I’m used to working from home whenever I’m not with clients, but even the mindset that we can’t leave or shouldn’t leave even if we wanted to you that changes things. How do we stay sane?
Audrea: It really does change things so I think you know for every person that’s gonna be different. There’s no magic sauce like you do this one thing and it’s gonna make a huge difference. There’s a million articles right now online talking about, how do I work from home and how to change the mentality and how we’re gonna see remote work be the new norm and all of that might be true, but I think for each person it’s really individual. So for me what I did is I kicked my TV and my couch out of my little TV room and I made an office. Looks good, I like it. Thank you um with my dining room table cause as it turns out we never use our dining room table except for like catching stuff so I was like this is the perfect desk and then moving the TV sort of into where like our community space in our home was actually was really nice because it means that wouldn’t we eat dinner and when we watch TV like we’re kind of together. My husband and I are quarantined together which has been interesting. So the other things you could do to stay sane or to really think about self-care. You know we’ve talked about self-care a ton on think tank of three.
Julie: We do and I should point out we just posted a blog this week. Thinktankofthree.com. One of our podcast guests Joyce Marter, psychotherapist in Chicago, but she’s a national public speaker, author, entrepreneur, so she gets it. She just wrote a great blog for us, with tips on how to stay sane and really get through this with our mental health in mind.
Audrea: I think one of the things that this is really done for us as a nation and I hope ends up being positive is it has really made us look at the norms that we exist in right and adjust. That’s one of the reasons I sort of switched up not drinking coffee and it’s one of the reasons I’m kind of trying new things while I’m home is I feel like in my normal world I’m so busy right. I get up in the morning, I drink quick coffee, I rush into work, I drink more coffee, I work non-stop for the most part and then I get home and I’m exhausted and so then I have a glass of wine and I go to bed right or I read or watch TV, but I like I’m not productive in my or I wasn’t productive in my non work time because I spent it all at work just I mean good for work right bad for me. So I think in this new space like I’ve really said okay what are the things that I kind of wanted to try or wanted to do, but I was either too busy or too tired and so one of the things that I do is every day instead of like going for lunch my husband and I are walking the dog at lunch and so we get out, rain or shine, it’s big shiny lately so that’s great but it’s been cold. I bet Ella loves that too. She’s so happy. She’s like the world’s happiest dog. Both of her parents are home all the time. I think every dog in America right now is the happiest dog. So you know we’re keeping moving I think is one thing that’s really important. That we know that exercise is good for your mood, we know that exercise is good in reducing anxiety so whether it’s you’re doing a free YouTube video you know at workout video online or just taking a walk like that kind of movement is so good for you and I think it really helps with managing brakes so working remotely it the reason I created an office was so that I had a separate space. So I don’t come in here unless I like to forget my chapstick which is pretty normal, unless I’m working or doing a Facebook live.
Julie: You don’t have a living room chapstick?
Audrea: I don’t. I keep chapstick in every room of my house I think. the living room is the only one I don’t. I have it in my kitchen in the spice cabinet and then I have it in every other room maybe yeah.
Julie: So what has been the hardest part for you? So this all sounds amazing I mean and also let’s just say like getting fresh air like even if it’s not the nicest day, getting outside and having your feet on the ground and getting some fresh air being out in nature even if you’re walking through you know the empty city streets you know whatever it takes getting fresh air is good too. What has been the hardest adjustment for you working from home?
Audrea: I think some of the things that have been hard on our equipment based in my office. I have like two huge dual monitors, I’ve got like ergonomic chair, I have a standing desk, I have an office filled with plants thank God the people who are still in my office or watering them, and then I also can walk down the hall to talk to any of the attorneys I need to work with. So I think the thing that has been hard at home is adjusting to different workspaces right so I am working off my laptop and this really small monitor that I have so it’s still dual screen, but they’re really small and I can’t walk down the hall to talk to any of my attorneys. The hall only holds my husband or my dog.
Julie: I think that’s one of the hardest parts. I mean I’ve been talking to you know my team. We’ve had some extra meetings this week like everyone else and we were virtual to begin with so you know everyone on my team is scattered throughout Michigan and Chicago and in Tennessee and so we’re used to these. You know we were talking about how our previous setup has really helped us in this, but it also is really hard because I’m used to meeting face to face with clients, sitting down in our office, communicating in that way. For you just walking down the hall and knocking on someone’s door and aside from work, having those social interactions.
Audrea: Yes, so one of the things I’ve done is like I said I turn my dining room table, which happens to be a really tall dining room table, into its own standing desk and then the dining room chairs are my chair. So it’s comfy, but it still works. I still have my dual screen and I have done just a ton of video. My coordinator and I actually had a call yesterday where we talked about okay how we stay connected when we were not and so we kind of just decided like all of our calls are gonna be video calls. Not because they have to be, not because I’m checking up on her she’s checking up on me, but just because like I kind of miss seeing your face. I love that.
Julie: Right absolutely Yeah I’ve started doing that even with my family. I mean it might have been a call before, but now you know plus my sister’s kids always want, they always want video anyway. Her three-year-olds are like no video no phone, but it yeah it gives us that face-to-face interaction and we can we can see you know we can see how someone’s doing, see how they’re feeling, you see their reactions. So let’s talk about your work a little bit more because I know you are just crazy busy so tell us how those of us, those of our viewers who don’t know you and what you do, tell us what you do and then how that is how your job has changed in the last several weeks.
Audrea: So I work at a law firm Schwabe Williamson & Wyatt, I love it. It’s such a cool space. I worked with lawyers in a previous job and really got to loving working with lawyers, but they’re a difficult breed for sure and the attorneys at Schwab is just they have such amazing personalities. They’re such good people, so it’s really been awesome. And Schwab we could say is what is the seventh largest firm in the Pacific Northwest. I think so yeah.
Julie: How many attorneys do you have, just to get just for some context? It’s a big firm.
Audrea: I think we have 180.
Julie: Okay hundred, okay.
Audrea: We have a hundred and eighty between Oregon, Washington, and Alaska, California and then we have some remote workers or remote attorneys who work in other places in the country. So good, but it’s an it’s a really cool law firm and right now law firms are responding right. Their clients are asking me for my business? What does this mean for taxes? What does this mean for how I keep my employees safe? How do like my investments safe? How is this affecting the industry? So I work as a business development manager essentially for industry groups. So I have three industry groups that I work with manufacturing, retail, and distribution. So right now it’s a big shift for the manufacturing space. How do you have your workers come in and work? You know sort of that working on that line right like there’s a supply chain element that we’re all using these supplies and so manufacturing sort of taking ahead at this time and trying to figure out how do they adjust to the new normal.
Julie: And let’s just say it mean for a bit of I’ll throw in the kind of personal anecdotes because I know you have your business head on right now, but in theory and we see a lot of posts on social media where everyone should stay home and yes you know we’re certainly advocating for that and Audrea you and I are quarantined to our own homes, but there’s also a lot of logistical elements that we need to think about and things that your firm is involved in for instance like you said, the supply chain. If every single person in the world stays home, how do we still get the products we need? You know just our most basic level. So certainly it’s not just a simple and easy solution. There’s a lot of elements at play here and a lot of decisions that go into figuring out and I know from your firm’s aspect figuring out the legalities of all of this. You may be a great thing to do and then we also have –
Audrea: The thing that keeps food on the table right. There’s definitely attention there. I also work with the real estate and construction industry and what we’re seeing right now is that there’s not a lot going on right and you have a lot of workers right now who can’t work remotely right like your carpenters can’t work remotely, so what does that mean? Well in Seattle it’s sort of business as usual although there’s less folks on the jobsite, but like in Boston. Boston shut down all over their construction sites so when construction comes to a halt, developers stop investing, they stop building like what does that mean for our economy as a whole? Who has to pay the cost of this delays? So all of those topics are sort of coming up and then I also work with the transportation ports and Maritime industry group, so like the cruise lines right now right like they’re taking a pretty big hit. How do you manage that? What happens if people get sick on a vessel? What is going on with the port’s right now? Right like we’re seeing there’s a real reduction and shipping coming out of China so the ports are exporting and importing less supplies, right less cargo. If that happens, then the ports are also bringing in less money and that also affects the rail on the trucking industry right like because once it gets on land – yeah and then that goes back into distribution right. So every time you order something on Amazon or you order something that’s grown in another country right let’s say avocados right now are not being grown here because it’s too cold right now so they’re being grown in South America. Well ok those have to get here somehow and if you have all your connections slowing down, that increases cost, slows down the supply chain, so it’s all in an interconnected, but it’s been a really cool, is that fair to say, cool and –
Julie: Yeah of course I mean like there’s still the human experience of all of this, like suddenly I’m listening to you and I’m like wow like audrea has really become an expert on something that a month ago you knew nothing about. Right well. It shows it’s not that you knew nothing about. Yeah because I’m obsessed with it for sure. Well I mean that is kind of who you are Audrea like interested in something and then you just become the expert this is why we love you so much and why you’re perfect for dealing with this, but suddenly it’s like you know you’ve been you know whether you wanted to or not overnight this is your new reality and for your attorneys that are dealing with this, you know it’s not business as usual. It’s probably coronavirus all the time, I would imagine.
Audrea: Yeah I mean it is and we are working to try to figure out how to balance that right because for our clients they are trying to figure out how to exist in this new norm, but they also still have businesses to run and so some of the things that are mundane are still meaningful and so we’re trying to work to figure out what are the pieces of information that we need to distribute that’s it’s you know COVID-19 specific and then one of the pieces of information that we need to distribute that our sort of general evergreen business updates and so it is a new normal and our attorneys are figuring it out they’re fielding calls from their clients as they’re trying to figure out you know what do I do here. People are I think on a range of freaking out and not taking it seriously enough and so the questions that companies are asking are along that line of specific news to oh my god I’m gonna freak out.
Julie: Okay so let me ask you, if I can? Can I put you on the spot? You know where is Audrea Fink is dealing with this new norm? You’re quarantined at home with your husband and your pets and just you know and how are you feeling with all of this, especially when it is for you I imagine a lot of like we said you know mostly you know all coronavirus, all the time, how are you feeling?
Audrea: Well and I’m in Seattle right. Seattle proper, so I’m at the epicenter. I think in the beginning because I just thought this was a really interesting thing when it was overseas I was watching and I was reading about it you should see my search history right now it’s essentially all coronavirus and like sprinkled with how did I screw up my last loaf of sourdough bread? Which we will talk about in a moment, yeah new obsessions. So I’ve been watching it unfold and it’s been really interesting and I don’t think I ever really bought into the true like paranoid panic, but I did notice maybe last week or the week before that I was starting to really feel afraid like I was starting to get that like anxiety and like oh my god what is this gonna mean and am I gonna get sick and is my family gonna get sick and it was just very self-focused fear and at one point I kind of had to check myself, like all right, I have a good immune system. I’m a middle-aged right look I’m not in the danger zone if you will, I have a job that I can easily work remote for like this is a small change, but it’s not a major change for me it’s mostly a mindset change and I’ll figure out if I’m gonna put pants on today or not right. I also my job is pretty secure right now because I am working on helping these attorneys put out all this content, so that their clients are continuing to call them. I have the luxury of being able to walk my dog outside still. I have the luxury of being around my husband, sometimes that’s not a luxury, but most of the time it is. So for me I kind of realized, I food on the table, I’m healthy, my family is healthy, right now like this fear is one not helpful and two really self-serving and maybe I need to be thinking about this from a different perspective. I had a lot of privilege in my space and I think one of the things that I’ve really looked into at this point is figuring out how to get away from the self-serving stuff and think about who else is impacted and how I can be beneficial in my community and I’ve heard about this so much online and I know it seems like such a buzzword like the most vulnerable populations, but at the same time I think right now we do need to think about that. You know my parents are all over sixty, Colby’s parents are over 60, so they’re in that danger zone range. I have plenty of friends who have compromised immune systems, who are legitimately worried about their health.
Julie: Now we are seeing the new numbers coming out that a lot more people our age, frankly are hospitalized right now and so that you know that’s a sobering statistic to know that maybe at first we thought oh there’s I think there was a mentality, especially as we saw college students who let’s face it if I was 21 how do I know that I wouldn’t have gone to the bars too? Right, but now they’re you know the numbers are reflecting that maybe more people are at risk perhaps for the second strain than we initially thought.
Audrea: Right well and I think you also have to think about how and like I’m not a doctor I’m not a scientist like I avoid science at all costs, but at the same time you have to think about how viruses mutate right, so what came from China through Europe to America that’s gonna be different. So this virus as it comes along is going to change because they do, they adapt to the changes in their hosts, they adapt to the body that they’re in. So we’re going to see a lot of changes and it’s going to be problematic. I mean there’s a certain part of me that worries about this quarantine because we’re not gonna build immunities to this virus if we’re not getting this virus in mass. Having said that, without quarantine like a whole lot of people who don’t need to die, are going to die so and then more gonna get really sick and so you know there’s definitely some complication and like some of it’s not just cut and dry stay in your home and –
Julie: Right, it’s not just an easy answer which is why and times like this you know what I’ve realized too is it’s just the level of distrust in our country and we saw you know months ago what was happening in other countries. At least with several weeks warning about happening in Italy and in Europe and still we chose to feel like oh no that’s over there that’s not here and I know we can get into all of the reasons why Americans have this separation and think that what happens globally isn’t happening here, but that’s a whole different that’s a whole different topic for a different time. I’m certainly not gonna weigh in on that, but I do think that you know we saw what was coming and we made choices, we all did, we made choices about what we did or did not do and what I realized is just the level of distrust because right now we have, whether it’s on our TVs, on our computers, on our phones, we have information from our governments. Local all the way up through federal telling us what we should and should not be doing and still a lot of people are choosing to ignore it and so just a level of distrust of what that says about us and perhaps going forward what that new norm will be. I would hope that maybe some of the silver linings, as you’ve been talking about, some of the silver linings that might come from this are you know maybe uniting in community in different ways. Maybe not having such a polarizing political system where we are, I mean let’s face it, they’re all being forced to work together right now whether they like it or not and so unfortunately it took something like this for that to happen. I talk with my hands and then I hit my computer you know but there are some things coming out of this, but in the meantime I like what you were saying the Audrea about you know at first you were really fearful and at first you were really focused on your own health and on your own well-being of you know do you have enough food and you have the supplies you need and that sort of thing, but then you’ve found ways to be grateful for what you do have and to find right you know that stability, that strength, that comfort and what you do have and then you brought up a good point. You know we were talking earlier offline about various industries right now including the legal industry and parts of it in some form. You know your department for example where there’s a lot of job security at the moment because you’re very busy and you’re dealing with this and what that looks like in the future, we don’t know. Future meaning like a week from now, a month from now, a year from now who knows? There’s never any real job security it’s just right now, we’re really busy. It’s really all mindset too right. I mean we commit – anyway we’ve got a podcast on that and job security with Dr. Dorian hunter for sure, but looking at you know those who are not feeling secure right now and I know we’ve got some tuning in that you know you’re listening to this and hearing Audrea talk about her security because I asked her to share what she’s personally going through, but Audrea we recognize that there are a lot of people that are not feeling secure in where they are right now and you know I can see a personal aspects. Sorry we’re getting all these comments that are just now coming up.
Audrea: Connie you’re not my difficult child.
Julie: I gotta pull that one up. Here we go. Connie, you must be at Audrea’s firm. She called attorneys a difficult breed and we know a lot of attorneys that will all claim that and be happy and own it.
Audrea: Connie sue is also very rad if you guys ever need an environmental attorney, she’s your gal. So I do think right now we are dealing with a different range of I’m gonna call it privilege, but you can call it security you could call it well I mean like you can call whatever you want. I am in good health, I’m financially stable, I can work remotely, my job is not at risk right now any more than it’s always at risk because there’s no such thing as real job security. Having said that I am very aware especially being in sort of this epicenter of how many vulnerable communities out there are not feeling stable. You have restaurant workers, bartenders, people who work in retail right now, manufacturers whose employees can’t come in right like that there’s a whole there’s a whole gammit of people.
Julie: Big event centers. Right even yeah and you know and it’s interesting because as soon as you said the word privilege and I completely agree it’s like the definition of that word has changed overnight. Right because suddenly you have so many people who maybe we’re doing just fine or good you know getting by and maybe they weren’t even you know we have many people who are paycheck to paycheck, many people here without paycheck and in the job search, others who maybe had a month or two of savings not as much as they would like, but still living comfortably in the moment and now you know so the definition of privilege has changed.
Audrea: Well if you think about it there’s also the people who didn’t have any privilege to start off with right. I can think of all the kids in school who the free and reduced lunches were how they got fed during the day right. We’ve gotta think about how we make sure our kids and their parents, very important, that their parents also have the ability to feed them and feed themselves.
Julie: And a whole new level of appreciation for teachers. Yes. That’s one common theme I’m seeing right now. It’s a whole new yeah –
Audrea: Right we also have you know artists right now. They don’t have to figure out what I do online. People aren’t going to museums, they’re not going to the aquarium, these places that have historically been safe and secure jobs especially cu Seattle has a huge tourist scene, they’re not there anymore, our tourism dollars are nil. We have people below the poverty line, you have single parents. I can’t even imagine being a single parent right now. I have so many co-workers who are working from home, with their kids and their kids are doing online school, and they’re like how do we do it and there’s and there’s two of them right like a single parent right now who has maybe a one or two hourly wage jobs like this has got to be horrifying for them right now and scary. So I think part of what I kind of come to in thinking about it sort of thinking past my own selfish fear is how do you as a person who has this privilege help your community, especially when you can’t go out into your community and I think that part of my sanity in this shift which, let’s be honest it’s not been that long, so it has been to think about okay can I order takeout I can afford it so I’m going to because I want to support restaurants in my area especially my favorites.
Julie: Absolutely and I’m experiencing some technical issues. Can you guys let us know we are hearing both of us okay? Are you hearing Audrea okay? Are you hearing me okay? Are you hearing one of us better than the other? I can’t tell if it’s me or if it’s you or what’s going on guys if you want to comment and let us know are you hearing both of us, are you hearing one of us better than the other? I think this is kind of our new norm of working with technical issues and through technical issues.
Julie: Welcome back. Well really welcome back to us. Welcome back to us. I think this is one of the realities of so many people working on Wi-Fi right now, so Audrea thanks for bearing with that. I don’t know if it was your, I think your internet went out for a minute, but I know a couple days ago mine went out. So I think this is, thanks for everyone for kind of bearing with us go ahead and jump back on when you see this and we’re just gonna kind of wrap things up. Audrea
you were saying, I could hear you even though I couldn’t really interact with you and comment with you, you had some some really great things to say. I think and I wanna I want to kind of recap briefly because I want to make sure we’re clear, you’re talking about people who do feel secure right now and you have in some industry some businesses this is their tim. They deal with disaster planning, they deal with cleanup of bio hazards, and so this is a time when they’re going to be busier than ever and so I think it’s important to remember that some people are doing well and those people can reach out for hacks and help others and those that need help you know, now is the time to speak up and try to support each other in whatever way we can. Even if that’s you know in the small ways and connecting with each other virtually to remind each other that we’re in the together.
Audrea: I agree. Check on your friends, check on your family, check your priveledge. You know check see how you can engage with your community in a positive way and if it’s not financial because you don’t have the financial means then that’s fine think of something different be creative. We are literally in this together as a species, so we need you to figure out how to help each other through this because this is going to end. It might take a little while but it’s going to end and we’re gonna go back and have a new normal again. The only consistent thing in the life is change, so we should embrace that this is different and figure out how to help our community and try to carry on as normal as possible.
Julie: Absolutely. Well I’m so glad that Audrea I think was able to join us this morning. Check out thinktankofthree.com. We have a blog we blog weekly and we podcast at least twice a month so check out think tick of three calm and stay with mConnexions this afternoon one of our think tank of three guests who also just blogged this week is Joyce Marter and she’s going to be joining me today at one o’clock to talk about the mindset the mental health of getting through all of this. So I’m so excited to be able to share that with you today at one o’clock Eastern. Tomorrow morning John Mashi an attorney at Foster Swift law firm will be joining us to talk about from the business aspect minimizing some of the legal risk and implications during COVID-19 and what really what businesses could and should be doing right now so I’m looking forward to talking with John tomorrow morning and then tomorrow afternoon Nora Luke a coach and consultant will be joining us to talk about how to see the opportunities even in the middle of all of these challenges. So thank you again to Audrea for joining me today. Thank you to all of you, if you have come questions go ahead and leave them on this post and we’ll respond to them and we hope you all stay well during this time. We’ll see you back here at this afternoon at 3:30 Eastern. I think I misspoke 3:30 Eastern with Joyce Marter. See you then.